London Interview 1997

In October 1997, Editor of “Sada” paid a visit to universal spiritual Guide His Holiness Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi and asked few questions for which he received satisfactory answers, which are guideline for the seekers of truth. All these questions and answers are saved in the form of video recording. Now these questions and answer are presented here in the written form.

Q. Today I am here to see you I will not take your too much time. I have short five or six questions. Either we will take tea or not, we will take tea besides the discussion. So that two tasks will he done in single time.
My first question is that was your name Gohar Shahi proposed by your father, your grand father, or you adopted it yourself?
Answer: He was our ancestor and we are from his fifth descent, Gohar Ali Shah was his name. Due to him our whole family is called Gohar Shahi i.e Gohar Shah’s descendants.

Editor: OK. It is your family name.
Q: My second question is little bit different from it. What is your spiritual position in the world today?
Answer: I don’t know, either world knows it or Allah knows.

Editor: At which stage you feel yourself? We want to listen from you which stage is this?
Answer: No stage, we are servant of creature only, obeying the order of Allah. Apart from this we know nothing which stage is this and what we are. Just as you were saying that you don’t who are you?

Editor: Subhan Allah, your answer is good. But for that thing when a person …..
There are three types of human beings. Which in my opinion…….. You studied a lot than me. Some people are there, who did not know what they are.
Answer: I understand your point, but some people keep on doing their duties. World judge them what are they. Some people are here who do a lot of things; also do every work nicely but people judge themselves about their mannerism.

Editor: No, it was all right but there is a division in spiritualism or even among the Sufis were three types of personalities. First who is perfect and to whom he wants make him perfect. Second one is he who himself is perfect but can not make others perfect and the third one is like me neither perfect nor creature, having no spiritual place.
So you are at which stage, from these two stages. If God Almighty has given you this power to make me perfect out of this Imperfection? Do you have a feeling of it?
Answer: No, we have judged that, that judgment is God is very kind to me and why He is kind? We (I) for His sake lived in jungles by leaving mu home, family and business. I wept and says Allah Allah, worshiped Him. Perhaps this is the reason. And second reason is that I had a lot of conversation with Him. I saw Him. He saw me. Beyond from this I don’t know what the stage is. When some one feels so much nearness to Allah.

Editor: In my opinion you have been reached at that stage (destination).
Answer: what can be the next stage, this stage is enough.

Editor: What can be the next stage, after this, so Allah has bestowed you on this stage?  Which of your gesture delighted Him, it is He Who Knows better. No one in the world can decide it. The third question is either you are the follower of Shariayt or Tariqat?
Answer: Firstly what I found, I learn Tariqat afterwards, in the beginning I offer Prayers and fasts and every thing according to Shariayat. Then after sometime I found Qalbi Zikr and we say it Tariqat. Both   Shariat and Tariqat go side by side. I adopted Shariayat also and Tariqat also. After some period we started direct conversation with Allah then neither had I given priority neither to Shariayat nor to Tariqat. Then I say only “without Union with Allah Bahoo this world is a false gamble”. That without the glimpse of Allah every thing is falsehood. Because in it there is neither Fitna nor sects. There are no sects or groups in this glimpse. There is no problem. We purify our souls up to that extent in the jungle that they (Souls) came out and offer Prayers behind the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H). This is Tariqat. And Shariayat is also like that likewise Tariqat is. The real Shariayat is that souls offer prayers. And Tariqat is that souls just came out of the body and have a view of Allah. We gave priority to this.

Editor: MashAllah, to which personality you yourself was the disciple?
Answer: I became disciple of Succession Saint’s office but there was no beneficence for me. I was ended their discipleship. I roamed in every Shrine but did not find satisfaction of heart as I reached for the satisfaction of heart. I wanted that my heart …. People say that the starting point is heart, so I should meet that person who can remind my heart in Allah Allah. I did not find such peer (Spiritual guider) or any Shrine from which I can derive any benefit. I was disappointed about that people say that satisfaction of heart can be found at these shrines. We are the true seekers. We have true devotion but did not find anything. Then we were averse to these spiritual guiders.
There ancestors were renowned Sufis. They are just nothing then I thought either there is no perfect man or he is out of my reach. If he is not within our reach then it is useless to roam here and there. It is just like animals which wonder in Jungles. Then I do a business and marry. One night we were sleeping, attention towards this was finished, while asleep suddenly the room was enlightened just as the light of car. One face appeared in it. I asked who are you?. He said I am Bari Imam. I asked what the purpose of your visit is. He said, rise! Your time has come. I said when my time was. That time was not yours. I have searched before but find nothing. From now on wards you will sleep at the flour and say prayers regularly. Every day you will have a Khatam of Darood Sharif. I acted upon as he said. Afterwards it became a routine. I stayed in the city for round about one year. Afterwards my mind was set there. Then there came the Divine order to go into jungle. Then I went to jungle. From Shrines I went to jungles. Then one day Hazoor- E- Pak (P.B.U.H) arrived there and he entered me in Bayat. He(P.B.U.H) did a Dast- E- Bayat, and then there was no need for Dast. E. Bayat in the world. Because we are convinced that our Holy Prophet is alive, what sort of satisfaction (Faiz) was in his time, is still there in his age. And I have the Faiz (satisfaction) after His age so that we make alive the hearts of people. Then what is the need to have a Bayat to someone. This is Owaisy Bayat 30 % agrees with it but 70% do not agree.

Editor: There is another question of mine that what is your opinion about Jihad?
Answer: That Jihad is not there, which is described. Jihad means, killing of peoples for the sake of Allah. Now in Kashmir, they are not killed for the sake of Allah. They are fighting for that piece of land. In Afghanistan, they are not killed for the sake of Allah that is sectarianism governmental differences are there. It is not Jihad. Jihad is Fe Sabil. Allah (for the sake of Allah) only for Allah. Now our government also fights, the army also fights. This is not Jihad. They are paid for it. As they are taking salaries, then they say go, so they have to go because they are paid for it.

Editor: today this has become a hot issue of literary persons, and poets that what is Jihad? Because the description of Jihad according to myself is being as ignorant person is that God has promised that Shaheed never dies. And this is description by Imam Razi and many books like Nehj. ul. Blagha. And modern thinkers have also divided the whole world into four things. The lowest category is inorganic minerals or matter vegetation is there which are some what better than the first stage. Animals are better than vegetation and the human beings are the best. If every small thing sacrifices for a larger thing, then it becomes eternal. He gave an example of it, if you see a barren land, we say it dead land. But if this land starts to grow (produce) something then we say it is alive. It means it eternity lies in that it sacrifices and produce (grow) something. It means it produces something.
Answer: If someone sacrifices for you then it is not Jihad. Those who sacrifice for the sake of Allah.  It is Jihad.

Editor: I am coming to this point because man is superior from everybody and it is supreme creation. And Allah also says that to whom he made superior it is only the human beings. So as you said if I die for land them how it will be Jihad. Because the land was an inferior thing than me. If I die for the sake of worldly things, then it will be inferior to me. Even If I die for the sake of my country then it is inferior to me. Only Allah is Omnipotent is superior to me. Until there is Prophetic order that there is your need as a Survivor of Humanity or survivor of religion. So from there the jihad starts. This was one Philosophy. The other Philosophy was of Qadiyanis who said there is no need of Jihad. They excluded it from there Din (religion). I want to know from you that at which stage jihad is obligatory duty.
Answer: The highest rank of jihad is jihad with yourself. This is jihad- E- Akbar and every body can not do it. Those who did, they became Allah’s. He sacrificed his evil desires. Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S) gave the sacrifice oh his Son and is superior to the first one. Its rank is higher the first one. It is superior to all. After that, there is Jihad with infidels for the sake of religion for bringing him in our religion, not for the sake of piece of land. It is not jihad in which we fight with India for a piece of land. It is jihad to fight against the infidels for the sake of religion and it will be only for the sake of Allah. He should not be paid for it, if he is paid then it is not jihad. This is not done today. You have said man is superior that what is the need for hell? That man is supreme which has settled the remembrance of Allah in his heart. Those who have entered in the Kingdom of heaven are supreme. Those who have not entered the Kingdom of heaven are affiliated with Satan (Devil). Then how he is supreme? He is losing. Those who are affiliated to Allah are supreme and there who are affiliated to Satan is lose. Now you say that man is supreme to Angles but the angles enter in Bait-e- Mamoor (The Holy Kaaba of Angles) but a man can not. Then how he is supreme? But you can learn spiritualism by a hard work and then can reach to Allah but an angle can not. Then you are supreme up to that limits at which the angles can reach, man is not supreme. If you travel to the limitlessness where angles cannot reach, then you are supreme.

Editor: Allah is responsible for the birth of men. As Hazoor Pak (P.B.U.H) said that every human being is born at the principles of nature. And Islamic religion is nature. In other words every person is born Muslim, Allah has gifted him all the facilities for being a Muslim or not.
Answer: we did not acknowledge it. This does not depend on the wishes of that person. It is Allah who made him lose or supreme as he sends every soul down in the world.

Editor: then man is powerless.
Answer: man is definitely powerless.

Editor: If he is powerless, then why he is to be punished? It would be against the Justice of Allah.
Answer: the reason is that all of us thought like that. When Allah created souls the asked them “am I your Creator”? He openly showed his view and asked “ Alastu- Birabqakum” (  Am I not your Creator ) “ Qaloo Bala” ( undoubtedly you are) then to test them Allah made the pleasures of the world. Artificial women, liquor and all the worldly things with huge glamour were made by Allah and asked is there any seeker. Many of the souls ran there some souls ran towards women, some towards liquors and some towards money. So that was got written in their destinies. But many of souls did not go there; they remain busy in viewing Allah. And that view was got written in their destinies. Those who see for the world, got it when came down.
Those souls which asked for worldly pleasures in the4 heavens, Satan Azazil was also included in them. Souls of Jins as well as of men were also made the souls which were back were made of Jins and which remains ahead, were made of human beings. Hazrat Jibraiel (A.S) told to Satan (Iblees) that you were worldly, hellish and his name was Azazil. He said I will show you to become a blessed one. He prayed on every nook and corner of the earth. As he was hellish, so became damned in the last, did not bow his head, and so was driven off from the heaven. He was damned for ever. Those who are blessed, those souls do a lot of sins, do dacoits, will do something that Allah will blessed them as Walis. Many of your robbers and dacoits and in the end do some minor work and Allah made them Wali. What is this? This is due to that reason which had happened in the heaven. All the things are obeyed as it is in the world. To whom He wants enter hell in the hell or heaven. It is up to him if he wants to enter you in the hell. Then what was the need to bring them in the world. If He is the only one to send people in heaven or hell, then should send them from the heavens to whom he send to Hell he ought to ask, why did you send me to hell? What I did do? Then he got the answer, I only promised but did not acted up on it. So the souls are brought down here for action. So when will say, what did I do. Then Allah will say that you promised and also acted up on it in the world. This is the point which He left for the people. If they met someone Kamil (perfect men) as Allama Iqbal said a Mard-e- Moman’s eyes can change the fates. Otherwise not, their fate is as it is.
There is one incident: Baba Farid was invited to Shahab-ud-Din Suharwardi (Bahaud-din-Zikria Multani). Both were Walis. People were sitting and waiting for a Wali. When he arrived, at the time of meal Bahaud- din- Zikria said to one ( Kaneez) maid to wash his hands. What he did was she keep on washing his hand but he gazed at her face. Jug was finished, he kept on watching people were anxious, as he was staring as being a wali. Why he stares? Now Bahaud- din- Zikria knew, there is some secrete, but people didn’t know. When all were sitting for meal, Bahaud- din- Zikria asked, why you gazed on the face of maid. You should keep ypur hand down as she was washing them, but you keep on gazing. He said, when I entered your house, I saw your entire servant were blessed. Only this maid was damned. She keeps on washing my hands and I keep on forgiving her sins. It did not took avoid the right of that maid, until Allah said, I forgave her. This was the logic, and Walis are like that. Many of these types of incidents are there because of Walis. As Mard-e- Moman’s eyes can change the fate of people.   

Editor: I had said earlier that one, who is perfect, can make others perfect in a look. And this is the height of humanity and at which height all other things are diminished.
There is one question, have you met Imam Mehdi?
Answer: I never said that I have met Imam Mehdi.

Editor: This is my question.
Answer: I can not tell anything.

Editor: As you said earlier, there was a nimbus of light for the first time you saw in the room.
Answer: That was not Imam Mehdi. He was Bari Imam. I said of Bari Imam.

Editor: I read in a paper that you said Imam Mehdi has appeared.
Answer: I do not say, the whole world says. Gahnghol Sharif Waley also said that Imam Mehdi has appeared. All the Walis has viewed his Face. In Britain here, he is famous Sheikh Nazim in London, he also says that Imam Mehdi has appeared.

Editor: You have also a view of Him?
Answer: we also say that He has come. What will him his sign? As Hazoor (P.B.U.H) has a muhar . e. Nabuwat at His back with the Kalima, likewise Imam Mehdi has Muhar. e. Mahdiat at His back with the Kalima.

Editor: So a sinful person like me, how can I see Muhre .e. Mahdiat at his naked back. Give me some guidance, if in case I can have a chance like this.
Answer: He who will say, I am Imam Mehdi, go to him, and ask are you Imam Mehdi? He will say yes, then said to him show me your back. He who will say I am, He has to show it. If someone says I have not then you have no right to see. If some says I am, then it is his right to show it. This is the mark and Patent mark.

Editor: Maulana modaudi has written in his book “masail. o. Afkar” the question was asked, Hazrat Imam Mehdi is senior in designation or Hazrat Isa (A.S) . He answered it very beautifully, when Imam Mehdi will appear in that prior Hazrat Isa (A.S) will descend. And Imam Mehdi will lead the prayers and Hazrat Isa (A.S) will follow him. The decision is up to you whether the leader is superior in rank or the follower is. Then it means If Imam Mehdi has appeared, Hazrat Isa (A.S) has to come back in the world.
Answer: many of the people said he has arrived and doing His work (duties). It was in American journals also. In the beginning we have read it in journal. One man comes to hospital and vitalizes the incurables. They say he is insane. When he goes the patient become quite well. Then they run after him but did not find. There are many reports of it. Many people have photographs of him. Anyhow this is one step ahead but we investigated properly. And that photograph is of Hazrat Isa (A.S)

Editor: that photo which is there in Churches?
Answer: no, it is imaginary photo which is in churches. Because the thought his hair were like that or his eyes were like that, so in this way they made this photo. Some things are same and some are not. Because I myself has seen Hazrat Isa (A.S). Then I saw his photo. And then some faces are on the moon. This photo is same as on the moon. This is the NASA, s report that there is photo present on moon. Definitely, if Hazrat Isa’s photo is there, then Imam Mehdi's will also be there. They identified Hazrat Isa’s photo, now when they will be familiar to Imam Mehdi, they will say His photo is also there.

Editor: one problem is there, which puzzles (entangles) the poet, intellectuals and literary personalities here. Kindly guide me why in Islam two women testimony is equal to one man. Why women are degraded?
Answer: In reality, women cannot view Allah; only have a talk with Him. Due to this reason, she is low in status. In the groups of Walis , Rabia Basri is called Qalandra. She is having a high status but still half Qalandar. Kahna Kabba itself came for her circumambulation. Kabba comes for circumambulation but still half Qalandar. The reason was that she talked to Allah but did not have a view of Allah.
This is the reason why women, are having a low rank. Second reason is that Allah has not made women with His own hands. You will say, from where did she come? You did not read Allah has made Hazrat Adam (A.S) with mud. He made Hazrat Hawa with mud, you read it somewhere? Why did not you read this? She was made from the rib of Adam (A.S). God did not make it. She came out from the rib of Adam (A.S), inside the body of Adam, and that pretences appeared in the form of women. Due to this reason her rank is low. God has not created her. Your God is Allah and her figurative God is you. How can she be equal to you? Then by joining two women’s testimony, made it equal to one man. Due to this reason she alone has not testimony. She is not equal to man. Neither she can have a view of Allah nor has Allah created her. She just comes out the body of man.
Only Hazrat Fatima. tul. Zahera (R.A) had a view of Allah. We say her Batool. Her Soul was masculine, but body was feminine. Why we said her Batool, because women had monthly periods, but she did not. Those women which don’t have period are called sterile, they do not have babies. There was no period but she has the offspring. Now the question is that babies got nourishment from the blood, but there was no blood, how they got nourish? They were nourished with Noor, so called as Noori offspring. And only for the seven generation this effect remained, after it finished. From 7th to 11th generation, there remained Imamt. Then this Imamt went in the followers. It went to Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, sometimes in Saadat and sometimes in followers.

Editor: Imam Abu Hanifa was present at the time of Imam Jaafar Sadiq instead he said I got from him literary profit.
Answer: Imam Jaafar Sadiq was in the Tariqat, He did not give the knowledge of Shariat. At last it went to imam Malik. Afterwards sometimes it was in the followers sometimes in Saadats. It was not permanently in Saadats.

Editor: because of this Zain-Ul-Aabedin who was born of a Irani Mother (noble on both sides) was finished at Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain.
Answer: still people are Najeeb-Ul-Tarfain. (Noble on both sides) . The series of Najeeb- Ul- Tarfain is just like that if mother is from Hazrat Hassan,s or father is from Hazrat Hussain or of Hazrat Hassan, then he is said Noble on both sides. Still in Pakistan and in the world they are called Najeeb-Ul-Tarfain . As is the Ghous Pak, He is also Najeeb-Ul- Tarfain, had a pedigree from the mother as well as the father's side.

Editor: the blood of outsiders was joined there. For example Imam ……..
Answer: First was only Noor. When blood was mingled with Noor, after sometimes, Noor finished, only blood remains. Then Noor was to be mixed in the blood. Up till these Imams, there was no need of mystic seclusion. No syyad needed that up till Imam. After that Saadats also needed mystic seclusions, for that Noor was up till 12 Imams. After that they all needed mystic seclusions, but before that, there was no need. They all were Noori.

Editor: one more question whether Imam Mehdi will appear from Saudi Arabia or he can appear from any where?
Answer: there are two Hadiths, one says, he will appear from the Holy Kaaba. And in the 2nd one, he will appear from Bait. Ul. Maqdas in Al. Aqsa Masjid . If you are agree with these two Hadiths, and then he should appear from both these places. If He appears from one place then one who vow the 2nd Hadith, he will not accept it. He will say, he was to appear in Bait. Ul . Maqdas, how he appeared from Kaaba. He was to appear here, how hw appeared from there. There will be a dispute. It means both Hadiths proved false. One was definitely wrong. God knows which one is wrong. You can say both of them were infirm.

Editor: Is it not possible, that he appeared from both these places?
Answer: no, he will appear from one place. But as we strongly believe in Hadiths, don’t negate them. We are to believe him from where he will appear. We are not to follow that narrative. All the signs of Mehdi (A.S) in any person either he descended here so we will see. We will see the signs of Allah. These are the signs of Allah which was written by the narrator. We will obey the signs of Allah, not the narrators. Because a narrator can be wrong. Because Hazrat Ayesha Siddiqa (R.A) had verified 200 Hadiths. The rest of these are not verified. After her, it is said that Imam Bukhara’s narrated Hadiths are verified. When he wrote Hadiths, there was an indication from Hazoor .e. Pak (P.B.U.H). We say if he wrote like this why some of the Hadiths are infirm. This makes it doubtful. If something is written by indication from Hazoor-e-pak then why some are infirm? If they were infirm then why were included this makes it doubtful. We
are convinced that if all the signs are present, then we will accept him as Imam Mehdi.

Editor: I think there is a saying of Imam Jaafar Sadiq and it is that Hadiths which matches with Holy Quran should be considered right, but those Hadiths which is against the Holy Quran just leave them. He declared the demarcation line.
Now even if there is some Hadiths in Bukhari Sharif and is also against the Holy Quran, then in my opinion every person should……
Answer: If it is against the Holy Quran then why it was included?

Editor: All these things and many more books like these, you know better than me that Islam’s Dark Age was of 100 years. It means after the demise of Rasool -e -Pak, the first book which we have on this earth except Quran Majeed, that one is Sirat.- Ul- Nabi by Ibn-e- Ishaq . And for 100 years we have noother  written piece of paper. Whatever it was, it had been transferred through chest. I said to you, you said to them and they said to them. There is no written record. All this was confused. Because it is not written, this is the reason that whole ummah does not know the date of demise of Rasool-e-Pak (P.B.U.H) when was He born this is accepted, but when the government had been established, Islam spreaded from Makkah to Madina , when whole Arab was downcast, and the whole Ummah is not yet convinced when Rasool-e-Pak (P.B.U.H) demised? And this is the greatest weakness from our side that so splendid personality left this world but we could not verify what the date of demise was? Either it was during 12 days, or 28th of Safar or at which date. There is no written verified record for it. Verbally, some accept and some don’t. When there is verbal discussion, some say this was the date and some don’t agree.
Answer: Hazrat Imam Jafar’s era was very close to the era of Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H). When he said that some Hadiths did not match to Quran …… it means that time these types of Hadiths were there. This is the proof ( that there were such type of Hadiths.)

Editor: I was studying in History, that one day Hazrat Umer  met Abu Huraira on the road and punched him very hard so that blood started to ooze from his mouth. He complained before Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H) that he beat me without any reason. Then Hazrat Umer (R.A) said that he quoted a wrong Hadith. Rasool-ul-Allah (P.B.U.H) said there was a mistake in comprehension. He quoted right thing himself, but either be could not comprehend it or could not explain it properly. Due to which the result was that it was quoted wrongly. And this was the reason why Hazrat Umer (R.A) beat him angrily. And this is the tragedy with us, and in my opinion 72 sects are there due to this. Otherwise no one said they don’t have faith in Rasool-ul-Allah (P.B.U.H) or in Holy Quran or in Allah. If every one has faith in Allah and Rasool, then why they divided into sects? So sects are there because if there are two  meanings for every saying, one group took one meaning and other group took other meaning. So neither the first ones are wrong nor the others.
Answer: one day I decided to study Hadiths of Mishkat sharif. I studied two or three Hadiths; then said not to read Hadith again as they just spoil the faith.

Editor: you are quite right; I have nothing except few books. When I visit India or Pakistan, I bring the books as many as I can lift. My journal is published. This is literary Journal. I myself was studying Bukhari. I can not accept this as how much shameless is the world, how can I accept it that some person asked Hazrat Ayesha how we do ablution. And she said I will show you how to take bath. So she started taking bath by taking off clothes so as if it was told by Rasool-ul-Allah (P.B.U.H).
Answer: It could not happen. There is another quotation that when Hazrat Ayesha (R.A) used to be in state of menstruate, and she offered prayers and when the blood oozed she used to put a bucket under her. These things should not be written.

Editor: A thinker quoted a nice thing; when there is decline on a nation; it highlights its leader’s evils that these vices were present in them. Due to this pretence, they start to do evil doings. When there was a period of Kingdom here and people were sunk in luxury and liquor. They just fabricated Hadiths and tried to prove, that” if they could do mistake then we also have not made any bad deed”.
Answer: Have you thought about its solution?

Editor: Sir, due to this we are here with you. In the end, we want to take message from you.
Answer: When I studied these Hadiths, there started paranoiac whispers in my heart. It was mentioned that there is no sin having mating with the jenny, as it was unanimous decision of all. Such were the narrations there. It was written in Mishkat; when Hazrat Umer (R.A) when used to break his fast, he did it through intercourse with his wife- Naoozbillah. This is written in it. I was very confused what Islam is? and all these things were forbidden, but they did all these themselves? I was not able to understand this. Then I thought these Hadiths are not right. We when were loosing faith in these infirm Hadiths, we were also loosing faith on right ones. Then we got the formula i.e not to reply on these Hadiths. Just keep doing Allah Allah, so neither paranoiac whispers nor satan will come. Due to the remembrance of Allah, you will remain connected to Allah, no need of Hadiths. Then I did so. I kept doing Allah Allah and never got paranoiac or satanic whispers. By remembering Allah, I got love of Allah and so Allah started to love me. So I got the destination. I thought if I would have entangled in Hadiths, then there might have a new sect formed. Then I thought the people had made so many sects due to these Hadiths. Now the solution is that, don’t entangle in it, only bring Allah inside. Offer prayers five times daily, which has to be offered. Follow 5 rituals (of Islam) and keep doing Allah Allah. And leave Hadiths for clerics ( Maulvi) .
There is a verse of Allama Iqbal for this age. Now this age is not of Hadiths, it will entangle you in pugnacity. This is the age of Allah Allah. All these Hadiths are meant for Allah. All these are for persuading you towards Allah. Now it is age of aero planes then why you are confusing yourself in donkey carriages. Why buses.. when are you going to reach. It is the age of aeroplanes , leave others, and go straight in aeroplanes, reach there, why you are entangling?

Editor: you had said a very good thing. And this is the reality that the time of Hazrat Moosa (A.S) was the time of magic. God created the best magicians Hazrat Moosa (A.S), which could overcome all magicians. In the times of Hazrat Issa (A.S) medicines was at great heights, so Allah selected one of the best representatives among them. All the medicine was failed before Hazrat Issa (A.S) in there time of Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) poetic works were at heights, we are surprised by seeing their faculty of thought. And Hazoor (P.B.U.H) was made an expert over them and claimed, Can you make a single verse like that.
Answer: due to imperfect knowledge Quran was revealed and so were Hadiths. What will happen in the times of Hazrat Mehdi (A.S)?. All the Hadiths will come to an end, only remembrance of Allah will be there.

Editor: yes, definitely, so gradually all the heights are attained due to knowledge. Allah,s first verse “ Iqra biyism-e- Rabi Allazi Khalaq , Khalaq –ul- Insan Min Allaq” . it means all the graces, are there due to, pen (Qalam) and pen( Qalam) is the thing which can take a man up to unknown heights. Before 15 hundred years, there was extreme darkness of ignorance. If somebody had knowledge then he kept it to himself.
Answer: I want to tell you something more, you people can understand them. In the era of Hazrat Muhammad (P.B.U.H) ignorance was ended and knowledge was dominated. When Hazrat Mehdi will be revealed, then this knowledge will be ended and Ishaq( Extreme love) will be created. Where Ishaq(passionate love) takes over,  Faith is not aware . This will be the last stage when Hazrat Mehdi (A.S) and Hazrat Issa (A.S) together enlighten the candle of extreme love in the hearts of people. Due to knowledge they divided into 72 sects, due to knowledge, but know Ishaq will make them one. First ignorant were made one due to knowledge and now stage will be made one by Ishaq.

Editor: before this, I found one Hadith, either it is narrated by Imam Jaafar Sadiq or Imam Muhammad Baqar , they said Ilum ( Knowledge) is a dot, ignorant had expanded it. I was very much confused, oh God, what is this philosophy? That ilum is a dot and ignorant had expanded it. I was disturbed by thinking about it. I meet a peer sahib, belongs to Iraq, said you didn’t understand. In reality if I talk to you about Physics and tell you one formula of Physics, in two words that what is atom and what is proton. So you will not understand and if I explain it then it will be expanded. When it will be expanded so all the derivatives (or explanatory points) will go in ignorance. Main point will be remaining. And he said in the end, all the knowledge will be reduced to one dot of Ishaq. And that dot is the main thing. The whole world is the seeker for explaining it.
Answer: the world is the seeker of that Ishq. Now the whole world is fed up with Ilum (knowledge), believe me whole world is also fed up with prayers. They say it like that knowledge has divided them in sects and prayers had induced pride and greed. And now worshippers are attacking worshipper in the Majids. Now there is a need of Ishaq, and for Ishaq Issa and Mehdi will work together, I say they are doing still. If you have the eyes to identify them, then people will recognize them. But when Hazoor Pak (P.B.U.H) was recognized slowly, he was not identified suddenly. Likewise they are also been identified slowly due to their work. They are with them and working with them. They are with Issa as well as with Mehdi. When they will be at heights then they will be recognized Issa and Mehdi. This will be at the time of success, not before. The first will be closest but at the time of heights  all will recognize them.

Editor: in my opinion a little group will have identified them, if they are doing work.
Answer: The minority people, who are with them, have recognized them. If they themselves not say, I am Issa or Mehdi, they recognize them. So those who are nearest are also Noor as Noor can identify Noor. A thief  identifies another thief.

Editor; Because God has given then those eyes of Noor, so they will judge others with them. They know who is who.
Answer: you are right those who are near as he will be Noor-ul- alaNoor so will recognize nor by Noor.

Editor: they will be recognizing each other.
Answer: yes, a burglar identifies another burglar.

Editor: they said that they will be with them.
I published this magazine “Sadaa”; it goes in the whole world even in Japan. You give message to Urdu readers and intellectuals that which topic can be the voice of peace, which is the saying of even poet and literary person.
Answer: This can be the message of Allama Iqbal. Write his Verse along with explanation.

Editor: But literary persons who are creating, writing essays and doing poetry. What will be yours message for them.
Answer: I myself am a poet. But when the self is not pure, if there is no grief in the heart, there is no grief of the creatures. Whatever they write all is artificial. And there is no effect in artificiality.

Editor: Subhan-ul- Allah. I will say, in the words of Ghalib, which things have a great effect which comes from your heart.
Answer: they have no effect. Because they produce artificial grief as there is no scent in artificial paper flowers. This is the real reason. Then what is the reason why any poet has not effect in their poetry as in Allama Iqbal’s poetry. He was a spiritual personality. These people they write for the show off the world so that they can attract people.

Editor: there is an allegation on Allama Iqbal that he murdered in his youth.
Answer: I don’t know if he did this, it can be possible human is sinful.

Editor: this is a reality, that Allama Iqbal’s poetry has been translated in the whole world and in Iran, it is much more. His own book’s sale is 35 thousand books. His 35 thousand books were sale in Persian language in one day. In the whole world, his poetry is translated. There are very few languages in which his poetry is not translated.
Answer: yes, in the whole world his poetry is translated. This is not a great matter that he murdered someone. Moosa (A.S) also murdered by hitting the punch. This is not a great matter.

Editor: In the end, kindly give me the message as well as the readers of “Sadaa”.
Answer: my message is that if there is any Mufti, any Priest,Abid, Zauhid, Shiaa, Sunni, Hindu, Sikh, or infidel stand them face to face to Allah; understand? Allah will see those which have glittering hearts, either they belong to any religion or not. Either or ignorant or scholar. Allah will be kind to those having glittered hearts. And what is the secret of this glittering of heart? When the heart will say Allah, Allah, it will shine due to Allah. The message is that learn Allah Allah and start the rosary of heart. As this rosary is made  of stone, likewise there is a rosary inside you. Tick Tick … synchronize Tick Tick with Allah so it will purify your heart. It is a Hadith, that every thing has a purifier,  to purifies our hearts is remembering of Allah. When your heart will shine, then your prayers will be accepted. Now there is no faith in your prayers, neither in your leaders nor in your knowledge. Because you have no heart in it. “La Salata illa Behazzor-e- qalab”. without heart  presence prayer can”t be accepted . Shine your hearts so that your prayers will be accepted, God’s mercy will be on you and sectarianism will be ended and all the quarrels will be finished. Only this is the message. Learn Zikr-e- Qalbi and get it from any where. We don’t say, come to us; learn it from anywhere so that this Zikr-e- Qalbi purifies your hearts. Buy this vehicle from any where travel and you will reach at the destination. You can reach to Allah if you learn this Zikr-e- Qalbi from any where. The purpose of your arrival in this world is, only to find Allah and you are deprived of it.

Editor: but again the point is that, Allah has decided it in my destiny, He decided it in the beginning ….
Answer: you should try who knows what He had written for you. And you are saying that if a man that tried hard, God helped him. Who knows you find a perfect ( Kamil) man like Baba Farid and change your destiny. You should try; try hard, so that your vehicle can run. If it can’t then do service to someone perfect (Kamil), may be he can drive to there. Why they people serve the Kamilin (perfect persons) Allama Iqbal said “If you want to have the pain of heart ( Dard-e-Dil) then serve the Faqirs and this diamond is not found in the treasuries of Kings”.
Bullah Shah also said, you should conciliate your beloved, whether you will have to dance. You should try every means for conciliation. Whether you will have to become a prostitute, this is found from Kamilin (perfect men). People should keep in touch to Kamiline, and search them. There are many people who considers, successor of saints as the perfect persons. They are wasting their life, because nothing can be found from them. They have the desire but their saints have not. They are thinking that their engine is going to start   now, but their life is finished. They should also seek for the perfect. Kamil ( perfect) is not which person as father is succeeded by son, then grand son and so on. Kamil is one who himself perfect mystic exercises. That one is Kamil. Their successor can not be perfect as you did the mystic exercises. It is not possible that your son can be Kamil without this exercise. You should have a little respect for them as being a son of Wali. So you should find those Kamilin who did mystic experiences. You should keep in touch with them and get it from them. if you find nothing, then they are those who are not loved by Allah. Use some tactics .ask from them, Bulhay shah to go to them. They said it is not in your destiny. He said come, no matter if he had to fight. You must come, however if you have to fight. So there are these types of people.

Editor: Sheikh Saadi had quoted an incident. One day Hazrat Moosaa (A.S) was going and one woman asked. You have talked with Allah, tell from him, is there any offspring in my fate or not. You definitely heard this. This is a reality those people were Kamil (perfect) to whom Allah said I am compelled before them. Because they people are ready to sacrifice their souls, how can I reject their plans because this is against Allah’s justice.
Answer: where they give verdicts. Those who gave verdict, those are above from them where God is compelled. Allah said, there will be no child. He said definitely it will be born. Give me one bread. So the child was born because Allah was forced. Why He was forced. it is Ishaq, for Allah’s sake he gave the pieces of his body. Then how can I reject his word.

Editor: I want to add this; it is something up to man and something as you said Allah’s grace or is revealed on it. Either he himself undergoes a radical change. He didn’t feel himself that where was I and how did I inclined towards it. Like as your whole life was spend that you inclined, then he acquitted. Then again inclined. Then by the grace of Allah you enjoyed countless bounties of Him, we can say it Miraj. And this is all Allah’s grace. He said about it “وتعز من تشاء و تذل من تشاء بیدک الخیر انک علی کل شئی قدیر"   
This entity is only Allah which gives.
There is another incident it is old that how much Allah is compelled and how much man is compelled and how much he is free. He thought this is the philosophy and it can take many hours. And our life can be spent in it. That how much man is free and how much is forced. What a beautiful answer was given by Hazrat Ali (R.A) during ablution, said Allah-o- Akbar and lift your one leg. He said lifted one leg. Then said again by Allah-o- Akbar lift your second leg. He said it is impossible to lift my both legs simultaneously. Then he said, in short Allah has made you as much as free and compelled. If you see, we recite Sirat-e- Mustaqeem. (The straight path) from mo5rning to evening, it is in Surait –e- Fatiha. This is in straight path. We are half free and half compelled. And the method of prayers which is highlighted by modern science is that you are compelled to pray because you can not stop your respiration for more then 2 minutes. And this cycle of respiration is attached with the trees. Their excreted oxygen is essential to you and your excreted nitrogen is essential to them. This is the continuous prayer with each other and you yourself is giving benefit. When a man dies, it becomes a part of the soil either in the form of ask or some other. The soil needs phosphorus. Man is born from it and dies in it so it is really a compulsion. And it is according to the justice of Allah. I really got a spiritual benefit from your talks and it is indescribable  ………………….I will try my level best to change my inner. And will try to change. And is there any message for me or for people.
Answer: I had told it. Try hard. Because your heart is the main connection between you and Allah. It is telephone. But Satan has be seated there, it spoil your prayers until Allah came here. You will remember Allah and it will get Noor and your connection will be on. In this worldly telephone, due to current, you can talk in America. And in this heart you can talk up to Arsh-e- Mualla. You will talk to   Arsh-e- Mualla due to this. Our main aim is to purify the hearts. If you heart is not purified then it is all become one, sectarianism will be ended. Sectarianism will be ended as Satan will be gone. We have given this message, if they people have, they can take it. Internet is the essence of all knowledge for every religion and every sect. you should publish it in your magazine, so people will get enough benefit from it.




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